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Jul 19, 2023
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when a jack smith's indictment comes out, we learn stuff. we're never gonna be able to predict everything that's in it before comes out. andrew weissmann and barbara mcquade, thank you for starting off our important discussions tonight. coming, up harvard law professor laurence tribe joins us next to consider the question of exactly which crimes jack smith's grand jury might include in the next round of trump indictments. professor laurence tribe is next. only at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner. our financial planning tools and advice can help you prepare for today's longer retirement. hi mom. that's the value of ownership. my most important kitchen tool? my brain. so i choose neuriva plus. unlike some others, neuriva plus is a multitasker supporting 6 key indicators of brain health. to help keep me sharp. neuriva: think bigger. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebra
when a jack smith's indictment comes out, we learn stuff. we're never gonna be able to predict everything that's in it before comes out. andrew weissmann and barbara mcquade, thank you for starting off our important discussions tonight. coming, up harvard law professor laurence tribe joins us next to consider the question of exactly which crimes jack smith's grand jury might include in the next round of trump indictments. professor laurence tribe is next. only at vanguard, you're more than just...
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Jul 14, 2023
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you said jack smith hit back hard. i would agree with that with andrew, this is a persuasive court pleading. a model of clarity, of brevity, of persuasion. it is only ten pages, double spaced. it's a quick, easy read. i would urge people to read it, because it is clear. jack smith and his team don't mince words. they don't pull punches. and i was really kind of excited when i read it, because it feels like a sign of the prosecution to come. and i think that they are going to continue to insist on a timely trial date, and in fact on page one of this pleading they highlight how the trump defense team failed in really, in its most important endeavor, when they filed their pleading on july 10th. they said judge, don't set a trial date. one of the first things jack smith pointed out, is the speedy trial act says, the judge shall set a date certain for the trial to begin. so they really just sort of embarrass the trump defense team's request and they don't let up for the ten pages. so i am encouraged that this is what we can
you said jack smith hit back hard. i would agree with that with andrew, this is a persuasive court pleading. a model of clarity, of brevity, of persuasion. it is only ten pages, double spaced. it's a quick, easy read. i would urge people to read it, because it is clear. jack smith and his team don't mince words. they don't pull punches. and i was really kind of excited when i read it, because it feels like a sign of the prosecution to come. and i think that they are going to continue to insist...
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Jul 19, 2023
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when a jack smith's indictment comes out, we learned stuff. we're never gonna be able to predict everything that's in it before comes out. andrew weissmann and barbara mcquade, thank you for starting off our important discussions tonight. coming, up harvard law professor laurence tribe joins us next to consider the question of exactly which crimes jack smith's grand jury might include in the next round of trump indictments. professor laurence tribe is next. tribe i next family cookouts! [blowing] [dice roll] ♪ playing games! [party chatter] dancin in the par—! tv: try tide power pods with 85% more tide in every pod. who needs that much more tide? (crashing sounds) everyone's gonna need more tide. it's a mess out there. that's why there's 85% more tide in every power pod. -see? -baby: ah. moderate to severe eczema still disrupts my skin. despite treatment it disrupts my skin with itch. it disrupts my skin with rash. but now, i can disrupt eczema with rinvoq. rinvoq is not a steroid, topical, or injection. it's one pill, once a day. many tak
when a jack smith's indictment comes out, we learned stuff. we're never gonna be able to predict everything that's in it before comes out. andrew weissmann and barbara mcquade, thank you for starting off our important discussions tonight. coming, up harvard law professor laurence tribe joins us next to consider the question of exactly which crimes jack smith's grand jury might include in the next round of trump indictments. professor laurence tribe is next. tribe i next family cookouts!...
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Jul 27, 2023
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how does that affect jack smith's determination of how he proceeds? can he ledgely, as you said before we talked to lisa reuben, can he argue to move one case faster than the other? >> that's a really good question. i think yes he can. these cases are essentially on their own tracks. obviously the defendant can't be in two courtrooms at the same time, okay, so judges do take into account other courtrooms and what's going on in other courtrooms for scheduling purposes. but i think the big question once an indictment comes down in the january 6th matter is, who's the judge? that's often a very big question in a criminal case. it really depends -- a lot depends on that. and then in d.c. you have a lot of judges who have prior experience with donald trump. i think that's -- these people in january 6th cases, i think that's so important. because a typical judge -- you pick a judge anywhere in this country, a typical federal judge and typical defendant, they usually give the defendant a lot of rope to take their time and learn and conduct their own investig
how does that affect jack smith's determination of how he proceeds? can he ledgely, as you said before we talked to lisa reuben, can he argue to move one case faster than the other? >> that's a really good question. i think yes he can. these cases are essentially on their own tracks. obviously the defendant can't be in two courtrooms at the same time, okay, so judges do take into account other courtrooms and what's going on in other courtrooms for scheduling purposes. but i think the big...
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Jul 18, 2023
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>> it really depends on what jack smith's second 4 motion. to continue where katie left off, it's basically a provision in cipa that more or less has you lay out for the court, here's the documents, then you'll have the response by the defense, so on. so depending how intricate they get with respect to the section 4 motion of the cipa. that's going to determine what's a reasonable trial schedule. i think that jack smith has thought as december 11th as being reasonable, having calculated everything he has. one of the things i think that he cannot necessarily control which the hearing is happening, donald trump's attorneys are dragging their feet in getting the type of clearance they need to get the documents in. it's almost as if they say, hey, we can't look at this stuff because they haven't given us clearance. therefore, they're dragging their feet. barring anything else, it's clear that a december 11th trial date is realistic. are you going to get that? probably not, because there's going to be a lot of back and forth. but i do think we cou
>> it really depends on what jack smith's second 4 motion. to continue where katie left off, it's basically a provision in cipa that more or less has you lay out for the court, here's the documents, then you'll have the response by the defense, so on. so depending how intricate they get with respect to the section 4 motion of the cipa. that's going to determine what's a reasonable trial schedule. i think that jack smith has thought as december 11th as being reasonable, having calculated...
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Jul 28, 2023
07/23
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the trump legal team meeting with special counsel jack smith just today. but instead, just as we come on the air tonight, we have now learned of the unexpected turn. the former president now facing two new obstruction counts in the mar-a-lago case. and a new person now named and charged for alleged false statements involving potential attempts to delete surveillance. pierre thomas, jon karl, and the team right here tonight. >>> also tonight, new reporting involving the president's son, hunter biden, from inside the federal courtroom now. the collapse of hunter biden's plea deal. the white house is asked today, will president biden pardon his son? their very swift answer. terry moran standing by on that. >>> at this hour, a severe thunderstorm watch across the northeast. expect damaging winds, heavy rain, large hail. all possible from washington, d.c. to philadelphia, new york to boston. they're already getting hit in new england. rob marciano timing it all out. >>> also tonight, the very difficult images. graphic body camera video showing a deputy tasing a
the trump legal team meeting with special counsel jack smith just today. but instead, just as we come on the air tonight, we have now learned of the unexpected turn. the former president now facing two new obstruction counts in the mar-a-lago case. and a new person now named and charged for alleged false statements involving potential attempts to delete surveillance. pierre thomas, jon karl, and the team right here tonight. >>> also tonight, new reporting involving the president's son,...
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Jul 28, 2023
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as much as they need jack smith. because jack smith has something better, he has the notes of trump's lawyer, evan corcoran. he got that because of the exception to the attorney-client privilege that they were used in the commission of a crime, so the feds have trump's lawyer's intricate notes. i think with all the evidence that jack smith has, this is heading towards an ultimate conviction. >> yeah, but dave, you know, the biggest concern a lot of us have is how slowly the wheels of justice can turn. we have a may 2024 trial date. reporting that de oliveira's lawyer is not even barred in the state of florida, let alone in the southern district of florida. do you think we might see a repeat of what we have with walt nauta, this repeated attempt to be able to get local counsel in order to get day olive arraigned in the first place? >> this is the risk jack smith took when he indicted another defendant in this case. he knew that in adding a third defendant, it would slow things down. because when nauta slowed things do
as much as they need jack smith. because jack smith has something better, he has the notes of trump's lawyer, evan corcoran. he got that because of the exception to the attorney-client privilege that they were used in the commission of a crime, so the feds have trump's lawyer's intricate notes. i think with all the evidence that jack smith has, this is heading towards an ultimate conviction. >> yeah, but dave, you know, the biggest concern a lot of us have is how slowly the wheels of...
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Jul 25, 2023
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jack smith sent a target letter to donald trump last sunday. you don't do that -- particularly against the former president -- unless you are pretty sure that you got the goods. and with respect to parlatore's two-week comment, i don't put much faith in that. i think that smith already has the goods. so, i suspect that we are gonna see it a lot closer than two weeks. and, you know, this is not rocket science. i mean, a federal judge, judge david carter, a very respected judge in california, has already said based on what the january 6th that tints committee uncovered, that it's more likely than not that donald trump committed very serious felonies. >> tim heaphy, is it possible, given the timing here of the target letter, that jack smith could be delivering indictments of donald trump within the next few days, or week, or so, but that the possible discussion of bernie kerik's material two weeks from now could be part of an additional element of that january 6th investigation, with additional defendants being named down the road? >> yes, lawrenc
jack smith sent a target letter to donald trump last sunday. you don't do that -- particularly against the former president -- unless you are pretty sure that you got the goods. and with respect to parlatore's two-week comment, i don't put much faith in that. i think that smith already has the goods. so, i suspect that we are gonna see it a lot closer than two weeks. and, you know, this is not rocket science. i mean, a federal judge, judge david carter, a very respected judge in california, has...
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Jul 19, 2023
07/23
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but the scheme itself will become part of jack smith's case. i think it's worth noting how quickly things change because as of 24 hours ago right now, nobody had been charged for anything relating to january 6th and the coup attempt other than the people who physically stormed the capitol or who directly supervised that, directly involved in the physical storming of the capitol. now we have these fake electors charged with fraud crimes and seems quite clear that donald trump is on the road to catching a charge of his own from the federal system. >> yeah. alyssa, the secretary of state brought up something i think maybe gets overlooked here which is that she faced real threats. and there was an anecdote where trump allegedly said that she should be tried for treason and in a white house meeting around the time they were discussing these lies around the election, there were real consequences and threats of violence, even beyond the capitol. >> i think people forget that. i think of cassidy hutchinson, who cooperated with doj, she got many threats
but the scheme itself will become part of jack smith's case. i think it's worth noting how quickly things change because as of 24 hours ago right now, nobody had been charged for anything relating to january 6th and the coup attempt other than the people who physically stormed the capitol or who directly supervised that, directly involved in the physical storming of the capitol. now we have these fake electors charged with fraud crimes and seems quite clear that donald trump is on the road to...
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Jul 19, 2023
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jack smith could go narrow. he could start with one indictment and issue subsequent or superseding indictments. and that will be a very big moment for accountability when we see the first january 6th indictment which earned by the grand jury. >> joyce, let us say you are one of trump's lawyers tonight. what would you be telling him? >> well, i would be telling him stop talking in public. doj is recording you. doj will use your own words against you as evidence if you continue the process of confessing on television. you know, late last week, we heard the former president acknowledge that he had retained documents in his possession. well, doj can check that off their list of things that they have to prove at trial. they will just play the former president's own words for the jury when the case gets to that point. and that's how that'll proceed. this is even more problematic for trump and the january 6th case. nothing will happen if it continues to talk about the facts here, and it only favors the government. >> a
jack smith could go narrow. he could start with one indictment and issue subsequent or superseding indictments. and that will be a very big moment for accountability when we see the first january 6th indictment which earned by the grand jury. >> joyce, let us say you are one of trump's lawyers tonight. what would you be telling him? >> well, i would be telling him stop talking in public. doj is recording you. doj will use your own words against you as evidence if you continue the...
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Jul 18, 2023
07/23
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still, no comment from the special counsel, jack smith. no comment when a cnn crew spotted him in d.c. today and asked about the target letter he sent to donald trump. cnn asking whether the special counsel's office is preparing to indict the former president over efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election here in the united states. several congressional republicans are vowing to support trump despite his growing legal troubles. here's texas congressman troy ne nehls. listen. >> donald trump is going to beat joe biden in 2024 for a second time. why are they doing everything they can to prevent him from being on the ballot in 2024? i'll tell you why. donald trump will win in 2024. the left, they're scared [ bleep ]. >> let's bring in our chief congressional kocorrespondent mu raju. colorful language from the congressman. what more are you hearing from republican lawmakers? >> reporter: yeah, republicans are trying to plot exactly how to respond to the news that donald trump could potentially base his third criminal indictment. you'v
still, no comment from the special counsel, jack smith. no comment when a cnn crew spotted him in d.c. today and asked about the target letter he sent to donald trump. cnn asking whether the special counsel's office is preparing to indict the former president over efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election here in the united states. several congressional republicans are vowing to support trump despite his growing legal troubles. here's texas congressman troy ne nehls. listen. >>...
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Jul 4, 2023
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how might the microscope that jack smith and his team? because there is a team of lawyers working on this. how might they be affected by the microscope and the scrutiny that they are under right now? how does it affect the decision-making? >> i think that they are more affected in their decision-making by understanding the significance of potentially bringing not just one, because they've already brought one but a second criminal indictment against the former president. particularly during the actual election season. while he is the front runner. my own experience when i was at the department both in the u.s. attorney's office and in d.c. and where we call main justice in the national security division, is i was so busy all day every day into the wee hours. i was not consuming all the news where people are pontificating constantly and commenting it's criticizing and speculating, it sattre. we were pretty much zeroed in on our investigation and making our decisions based on the guidelines and principles for federal prosecution. but also re
how might the microscope that jack smith and his team? because there is a team of lawyers working on this. how might they be affected by the microscope and the scrutiny that they are under right now? how does it affect the decision-making? >> i think that they are more affected in their decision-making by understanding the significance of potentially bringing not just one, because they've already brought one but a second criminal indictment against the former president. particularly...
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Jul 18, 2023
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jack smith is ready to go. he knows the political time clock is ticking, not because politics will influence his decisions here, but because they will influence both his ability to act and his ability to get the case to trial in advance of the election. we are, i think, in go time for jack smith and his team. >> jackie, walk us through -- take us through your reporting in the days and weeks that followed the election, january 6th itself, and those days that followed, and what we now know was going on behind the scenes at the white house, the pressure campaign, the slates of fake electors, conversations with mike pence, including on the morning of january 6th. remind us of how we got to this spot. >> yeah, peter, there are a lot of parallel threads here within this segment of jack smith's special counsel investigation into the events that led up to the january 6th insurrection and the attack on the capitol. we do know in recent weeks in particular jack smith has been asking a lot of questions about that december
jack smith is ready to go. he knows the political time clock is ticking, not because politics will influence his decisions here, but because they will influence both his ability to act and his ability to get the case to trial in advance of the election. we are, i think, in go time for jack smith and his team. >> jackie, walk us through -- take us through your reporting in the days and weeks that followed the election, january 6th itself, and those days that followed, and what we now know...
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Jul 20, 2023
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if the past is prologue jack smith enjoys multitasking. more than a month after he indicted trump in the documents case we learned the grand jury in florida is still working. it is still investigating. it is still potentially mulling over more indictments in that mar-a-lago documents case. we know trump's codefendant in that case, his aide, walt nauta, we know nauta didn't get a target letter until five days after trump got his. nbc news has reached out to a number of trump allies involved in trump's attempt to overturn the 2020 election, and so far we have confirmation that rudy giuliani and lynnwood and mitchell and, scott perry and john eastman, so far we have confirmation that all of those people have not received target letters. again, so far. other individuals like jeffrey clark, who trump tried to appoint as the acting attorney general on january 2021 to help trump overturn the results of the election, mr. clark's spokesman declined to comment. and tonight there's a particular focus on people like jeffrey clark and john eastman and
if the past is prologue jack smith enjoys multitasking. more than a month after he indicted trump in the documents case we learned the grand jury in florida is still working. it is still investigating. it is still potentially mulling over more indictments in that mar-a-lago documents case. we know trump's codefendant in that case, his aide, walt nauta, we know nauta didn't get a target letter until five days after trump got his. nbc news has reached out to a number of trump allies involved in...
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Jul 26, 2023
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jack smith also continues to focus on the role of fake electors. two more people have been subpoenaed and are set to appear before the grand jury in the month of august. meanwhile, trump longtime loyalist and former white house trade advisor, peter navarro, is publicly defending his former boss, and issuing warnings that sound an awful lot like serious threats. navarro warned of a, quote, civil war as a result of the trump investigations. >> such an unthinkable war breaks out, it will be the democrats fault. the democrat activists and strategists now are driving this nation towards a second civil war, and neither justice nor righteousness on their side. my strong admonition for these democrats, as i appeal to your party, is this. back this anti-democratic -- truck up before it runs over you. >> navarro, of course, is said to stand trial in september after refusing to comply with the subpoena from the january six committee. also this evening, we are learning more about the classified documents investigation. nbc reports 8 search warrants and affidav
jack smith also continues to focus on the role of fake electors. two more people have been subpoenaed and are set to appear before the grand jury in the month of august. meanwhile, trump longtime loyalist and former white house trade advisor, peter navarro, is publicly defending his former boss, and issuing warnings that sound an awful lot like serious threats. navarro warned of a, quote, civil war as a result of the trump investigations. >> such an unthinkable war breaks out, it will be...
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Jul 27, 2023
07/23
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an indictment to be expected in jack smith's other case. this, though, is an additional defendant in the mar-a-lago case. tell us what we understand to be happening there. >> that's right, nicolle, and our information at this point is limited. all we know is that man's name has been added to the docket. we don't know if he's been charged. we can't say the nature of the charges. in fact -- we are awaiting the formal news release that the justice department typically sends out when something like this happens, and we have not seen it yet. we don't know what his official status is, but as you said, he's been the subject of reporting with things done to the pool at mar-a-lago and questions about whether there was any intentional effort to destroy evidence, including boxes of documents at mar-a-lago. and we'll just have to wait and see what exactly is his status with regard to the case. right now we're just saying his name has been added to the mar-a-lago docket. >> ken, on that other news we have been watching all day, the abnormally lengthy ti
an indictment to be expected in jack smith's other case. this, though, is an additional defendant in the mar-a-lago case. tell us what we understand to be happening there. >> that's right, nicolle, and our information at this point is limited. all we know is that man's name has been added to the docket. we don't know if he's been charged. we can't say the nature of the charges. in fact -- we are awaiting the formal news release that the justice department typically sends out when...
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Jul 18, 2023
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and i asked about jack smith and some of the questions i just put to glenn thrush. there's something in my mind that wonders coming from war crimes to the domestic political landscape, maybe jack smith was the person to be totally unfazed in what he had to sort of immerse himself in. what do you make of the speed and the change in speed and pace from before there was a special counsel from before at least the january 6th probe was in jack smith's hand to after? >> you're really right about that. first, he has been in the fire before. and to all accounts, he's totally been able to walk forward and be completely unfazed by the political swirl around him. he knows how to handle it. but second, yes, he got out of the box pretty quickly, and we were struck with mar-a-lago. he's now in overdrive. i don't think there's a faster gear. and we went through this in mar-a-lago, but the definition of the target letter is so close, you can bet it's gone through the leadership of the department. in terms of speed, the big question will be, and glenn's comments refer to it, he can
and i asked about jack smith and some of the questions i just put to glenn thrush. there's something in my mind that wonders coming from war crimes to the domestic political landscape, maybe jack smith was the person to be totally unfazed in what he had to sort of immerse himself in. what do you make of the speed and the change in speed and pace from before there was a special counsel from before at least the january 6th probe was in jack smith's hand to after? >> you're really right...
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Jul 13, 2023
07/23
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jack smith aware of that, too. i wonder what you think of this effort on smith's part to develop clear evidence of trump's state of mind. >> i think it's essential. as you read that last quote about being able to make the case in the public, i think that's the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence. we might be able to infer from the circumstances that trump knew that he had lost the election. when his own statements verbatim can be used at trial, that can be more powerful. the law says circumstantial is just as good as direct evidence. i think for a jury, it is -- it feels stronger and they can be convinced more beyond a reasonable doubt. this element of willfulness is an essential element of the crime. it's hard in fraud cases. as a judge will say in instructions, we cannot read another person's mind. you have to look at what they said and what they did so that the jury can draw reasonable inferences. if he keeps saying, i believed it, that could be a valid defense. it reminds me of the episode of
jack smith aware of that, too. i wonder what you think of this effort on smith's part to develop clear evidence of trump's state of mind. >> i think it's essential. as you read that last quote about being able to make the case in the public, i think that's the difference between direct and circumstantial evidence. we might be able to infer from the circumstances that trump knew that he had lost the election. when his own statements verbatim can be used at trial, that can be more powerful....
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Jul 28, 2023
07/23
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and jack smith is calling his bluff. which andrew weissmann has stated makes it far more likely that the jury is now going to hear that tape. hear donald trump chuckling with his buddies as he talks about one of the most sensitive imaginable documents. i mean, we are not talking about appointments for yoga sessions. if we were -- if we were making up a simulation, a test, what would be the most egregious violation of confidential information in the u.s. government. it would be something like plans to attack a foreign nation. that if it fell into the wrong hands would quite clearly put the lives of service men and women in danger. and so, you know, i agree that obviously the coverup, obstruction of justice, the sort of mob boss vibs from donald trump is significant, buff it really comes back to this war plan and jack smith saying that here it is, the jury will hear it. >> pete, i want you to weigh in on what employee four is saying to de oliveira and also now i don't have the rights do what the boss wants me to do, which
and jack smith is calling his bluff. which andrew weissmann has stated makes it far more likely that the jury is now going to hear that tape. hear donald trump chuckling with his buddies as he talks about one of the most sensitive imaginable documents. i mean, we are not talking about appointments for yoga sessions. if we were -- if we were making up a simulation, a test, what would be the most egregious violation of confidential information in the u.s. government. it would be something like...
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Jul 18, 2023
07/23
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jack smith, quote, can walk and chew gum at the same time. so the fact that katelynn has this reporting about the former governor of arizona being called in as a witness we're likely to see that, see this indictment shortly and then we will see jack smith continue to do interviews. >> when you say they reached out to him, does ha mean he has gone to talk or you don't know? >> i asked the question, has he spoken to jack smith -- you go to meet with the investigators or the grand jury, they did not say which, just they reached out, he's been responsive and wants to do the right thing. >> this was reporting i had last week that new witnesses were going before federal prosecutors. so this may be part of an ongoing investigation. one thing i want to know, this may be narrowly focused on donald trump to make it as clean as an investigation and process as it can be. but i would predict his team is going to spin that. once again he's the only person being targeted. i'm brynn gingraseing dindicted. it proves better if there's a conspiracy and going af
jack smith, quote, can walk and chew gum at the same time. so the fact that katelynn has this reporting about the former governor of arizona being called in as a witness we're likely to see that, see this indictment shortly and then we will see jack smith continue to do interviews. >> when you say they reached out to him, does ha mean he has gone to talk or you don't know? >> i asked the question, has he spoken to jack smith -- you go to meet with the investigators or the grand...
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Jul 28, 2023
07/23
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should jack smith help him in that? >> so, i don't think jack smith is helping him. i think jack smith is doing his job. because what you have to do, as a prosecutor, when you're indicting a complicated case like this is to make sure that you've nailed everything down before you indict your case. that means you have to talk to all of the witnesses, witnesses who need to testify under oath have to be tendered to the ground jury so that you can lock them down under oath. you have to really make sure that you've heard not only from the witnesses who will make their case and chief, but also from any witnesses who could possibly be defense witnesses. you need to know what they will say, so that you could evaluate whether or not there's a defense. so yes, jack smith has to feel the pressure of the block. none of us are naive. we understand that delay, as donald trump's only strategy here. but, at the same time, smith still has to do his job. and he has been remarkable about compiling this case. and i think the far less time that anyone would've ever estimated he could've h
should jack smith help him in that? >> so, i don't think jack smith is helping him. i think jack smith is doing his job. because what you have to do, as a prosecutor, when you're indicting a complicated case like this is to make sure that you've nailed everything down before you indict your case. that means you have to talk to all of the witnesses, witnesses who need to testify under oath have to be tendered to the ground jury so that you can lock them down under oath. you have to really...
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smith, and it may be that we see indictments sooner from jack smith. than from fani willis. >> let's talk about that backdrop that mya just referenced. the special counsel, fulton county d.a. it seems like we are inching closer to potential third and fourth indictments for the ex-president. that has not swayed his level of support in the republican party. you heard the sound from stefanik, from mccarthy, they are standing by their man. anything that would move the needle a this point? >> i mean, to your point, former president trump could be facing four separate indictments by next month. and so we talk to people who say they expect the dynamics of this primary to change 15 times over between now and when it's done, but to your point, we've seen in poll after pom how former president donald trump continues to maintain the support with his base group of voters no matter what happens. he has been successful in casting these things as a witch hunt. the republicans you mentioned, despite saying things otherwise after january 6th, they are all defending him
smith, and it may be that we see indictments sooner from jack smith. than from fani willis. >> let's talk about that backdrop that mya just referenced. the special counsel, fulton county d.a. it seems like we are inching closer to potential third and fourth indictments for the ex-president. that has not swayed his level of support in the republican party. you heard the sound from stefanik, from mccarthy, they are standing by their man. anything that would move the needle a this point?...
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Jul 25, 2023
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jack smith would want to go first, but will fani willis end up getting a trial date before jack smith does on those charges related to january 6th? and what interplay will there be with the witnesses? because there'll be many witnesses in common with both. i do think fani willis has particular expertise in using the racketeering status in georgia. and she did that with the teaching cheating scandal. something you don't think of. when you think of rico you think of gang centers. you don't think of educators systematically cheating on exams in order to feather their own nests. she's got experience with this, and this is where i think some of the delay on her charges is that some of these fake electors are taking advantage of offers of immunity. and coming in and telling exactly how they were contacted, exactly what they believed, and now can she pull that thread all the way back to donald trump on the fake electors? and that's where somebody like mark meadows becomes a very, very important witness. >> andrew wiseman, to tie them all together for us, what fani willis is up to in georgia
jack smith would want to go first, but will fani willis end up getting a trial date before jack smith does on those charges related to january 6th? and what interplay will there be with the witnesses? because there'll be many witnesses in common with both. i do think fani willis has particular expertise in using the racketeering status in georgia. and she did that with the teaching cheating scandal. something you don't think of. when you think of rico you think of gang centers. you don't think...
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jack smith knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time. what can we learn from just how all encompassing this investigation, as reportedly become? and how close is it to nearing an end. joining us now is former federal prosecutor paul butler, and msnbc legal analyst lisa reuben. lisa, paul, thank you both for being here with us tonight. lisa, this breath of jack smith's investigation, does it indicate to you that we are likely to see a lot of different charges here? or is this just that jack smith is batting every eye and crossing all tees? >> it's literally high to say, symone. certainly, when it came to the records investigation, nobody really knew that the end was coming until we knew that the indictment was coming. in fact, most of us did not even know if there was a grand jury in florida let alone miami until a few days before. so, i think it's really hard to read the tea leaves and know exactly what is coming down the pipe. that said, the breadth of the investigation here is astonishing. and i think one of the things that jack smith
jack smith knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time. what can we learn from just how all encompassing this investigation, as reportedly become? and how close is it to nearing an end. joining us now is former federal prosecutor paul butler, and msnbc legal analyst lisa reuben. lisa, paul, thank you both for being here with us tonight. lisa, this breath of jack smith's investigation, does it indicate to you that we are likely to see a lot of different charges here? or is this just that...
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donald trump's lawyers meeting with the special counsel, jack smith, earlier today. cnn's kristen holmes is just outside bedminster where the former president is right now. kristen, i know you're getting more information. what are you learning? >> reporter: yeah, i've been talking to trump's advisers who say it's been eerily quiet since that meeting earlier this morning. they are not sure what it means. they are still unclear whether or not an indictment is coming down. of course evan reported earlier lawyers were not given any indication, any notification of an indictment. however, his team has long thought he will be indicted, particularly of course after getting that target letter. but i'm told that the campaign team just stayed at bedminster today. they were working on getting him ready for iowa tomorrow as well as pennsylvania on saturday. but when i'm talking to these advisers they're asking me the same questions. they do not know exactly what this means and they have been told to stay on their toes, that they're just not sure what's going on. they're trying to
donald trump's lawyers meeting with the special counsel, jack smith, earlier today. cnn's kristen holmes is just outside bedminster where the former president is right now. kristen, i know you're getting more information. what are you learning? >> reporter: yeah, i've been talking to trump's advisers who say it's been eerily quiet since that meeting earlier this morning. they are not sure what it means. they are still unclear whether or not an indictment is coming down. of course evan...
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would could you imagine had jack smith used a coupon. >> ainsley: jack smith has to eat lunch a lawyer from nancy pelosi's office erika sometimes a sandwich is just a sandwich. huian sanchez pretty sure the message is he wanted a sandwich. >> steve: what if he had gone to taco bell yesterday on taco tuesday. what would that mean? [i [dragnet soundbite] >> steve: with are is your team of investigators. >> brian: we don't understand anything that's going on in the document case with biden. we don't have even a good story to say there was nothing in delaware, there was nothing in the corvette. nothing substantial at his lawyer's office. nothing substantial in chinatown. you don't hear anything. >> steve: well, that's why today and you will see it right here on fox at 1:00 in the afternoon the whistleblowers are going to be on. what do they have to say about hunter biden? stay tuned. >> ainsley: when do we get the new ratings that show how this is going to effect donald trump's campaign? because we have seen it in the last two indictments whether it was in new york and then when it was in
would could you imagine had jack smith used a coupon. >> ainsley: jack smith has to eat lunch a lawyer from nancy pelosi's office erika sometimes a sandwich is just a sandwich. huian sanchez pretty sure the message is he wanted a sandwich. >> steve: what if he had gone to taco bell yesterday on taco tuesday. what would that mean? [i [dragnet soundbite] >> steve: with are is your team of investigators. >> brian: we don't understand anything that's going on in the document...
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Jul 28, 2023
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donald trump has met his match with special counsel jack smith. unlike trump who always relies on insults, conspiracy theories, and alternative facts, smith is putting in the hours and doing the hard work to uncover actual facts and evidence. and last night, that due diligence was on display when the special counsel's office issued a superseding indictment in the classified documents case. it added three new charges against trump, one count of willful retention of national defense information, and two additional counts of obstruction. it also named a new defendant, carlos deoliveira, a property manager at mar-a-lago. de oliveira allegedly helped trump's longtime valet and codefendant, walt nauta, move boxes containing classified documents out of a storage room. he allegedly spoke with "trump employee 4" which we now know to be yusuf taveras, the director of security, for trying to delete the security footage showing the boxes moved. we'll get back to that. i want to focus on something else we learned from the superseding indictment about the top s
donald trump has met his match with special counsel jack smith. unlike trump who always relies on insults, conspiracy theories, and alternative facts, smith is putting in the hours and doing the hard work to uncover actual facts and evidence. and last night, that due diligence was on display when the special counsel's office issued a superseding indictment in the classified documents case. it added three new charges against trump, one count of willful retention of national defense information,...
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Jul 30, 2023
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i would be very interested to know if jack smith, if they were not able to delete footage, if jack smith has any footage of people going near -- bush's or closets -- because it's totally going to bolster the case, even walking together on the days that are described. that kind of thing i think is what -- that kind of evidence to bolster if there is only hearsay. >> yeah. >> that bolsters that argument. >> michelle goldberg, let me ask renato very quickly. when we find out what evidence that jack smith has? is it during the trial or is it beforehand in any of the proceedings whether we will know if he has recordings or text messages or this footage? >> there will be motion practice. so there is going to be -- for example, that fence is probably going to ask for all kinds of classified information to try to delay things. but there's also going to be motions going back and forth, for example, whether or not there's sufficient evidence of a conspiracy to last statements to come. and there will be, i'm sure, motions to exclude evidence by the defense. so i think in those motions over time we
i would be very interested to know if jack smith, if they were not able to delete footage, if jack smith has any footage of people going near -- bush's or closets -- because it's totally going to bolster the case, even walking together on the days that are described. that kind of thing i think is what -- that kind of evidence to bolster if there is only hearsay. >> yeah. >> that bolsters that argument. >> michelle goldberg, let me ask renato very quickly. when we find out what...
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so, even with all of this on his plate, jack smith is still investigating. we could have even more indictments, potentially even superseding indictments against existing defendants still to come. how do all of these cases lined up with each other? and what exactly is the order of operations here? there is no better person to ask that the two genes i have tonight, ari melber host of msnbc's the beat with ari melber, and neal katyal, of course, former acting solicitor general for the obama administration. neal, the calendar seems very full already. -- october of this year is the new york a.g.'s civil fraud case of -- march of next year's alvin bragg's to trial for the hush money probe. there is an unknown trial date for mar-a-lago, and potentially a trial set that will be set in fani willis's investigation into trump's role in the 2020 election results in her state and then, of course, the special counsel probe, january 6th, a potential trump indictment. how is this all going to work, neal? >> so, it's definitely a full calendar, alex, as you said, and it's be
so, even with all of this on his plate, jack smith is still investigating. we could have even more indictments, potentially even superseding indictments against existing defendants still to come. how do all of these cases lined up with each other? and what exactly is the order of operations here? there is no better person to ask that the two genes i have tonight, ari melber host of msnbc's the beat with ari melber, and neal katyal, of course, former acting solicitor general for the obama...
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Jul 18, 2023
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jack smith is tight lipped. he was spotted today by cnn going to subway for lunch, picking up a sandwich, leaving and not saying a word. no comment from the special counsel's office on whether they plan to indict donald trump and when that is potentially going to happen it for the second time for a federal case. but we do know that grand jury is in today in washington over at the courthouse. they are very likely to return potentially on thursday that day that trump is indicted or he said he's invited to speak to them and on the trump side of things, he's been meeting with advisors and they've been scrambling to figure out has anyone else received a target letter and how much of a significant amount of trouble could he be in with this case. dana. >> those are questions we don't know the answer to. thank you so much for that reporting, catelin. the panel is back with me. john, it's important, i think, because people are now drinking from a firehose of donald trump's legal issues, to separate this out from the othe
jack smith is tight lipped. he was spotted today by cnn going to subway for lunch, picking up a sandwich, leaving and not saying a word. no comment from the special counsel's office on whether they plan to indict donald trump and when that is potentially going to happen it for the second time for a federal case. but we do know that grand jury is in today in washington over at the courthouse. they are very likely to return potentially on thursday that day that trump is indicted or he said he's...
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>> this is one of the challenges that jack smith is facing. there's so many evidence that katelyn and paula just laid out, how exactly can i charge this criminally. you can't just say january 6th, or all of this stuff on the january 6th report with hundreds and hundreds of pages. here's what i see as potential charges. first of all, obstruction of a federal proceeding. meaning if the effort was to stop congress from casting the vote, that charge has brought by 300 people who stormed the capitol. that's one possibility. the broadest statute, the brodest position jack smith could take is the conspiracy to defraud the united states of a free and fair election which is a charge that's not been brought many times or capitol rioters but robert mueller actually did charge it in russia's attempt to interfere with the 2016 election. and also false statements tied to donald trump and others. another possible charge that strikes me unlikely is insurrection based on donald trump's speech. that gets into first amend, free speech issues. that's probably the
>> this is one of the challenges that jack smith is facing. there's so many evidence that katelyn and paula just laid out, how exactly can i charge this criminally. you can't just say january 6th, or all of this stuff on the january 6th report with hundreds and hundreds of pages. here's what i see as potential charges. first of all, obstruction of a federal proceeding. meaning if the effort was to stop congress from casting the vote, that charge has brought by 300 people who stormed the...
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and that is what jack smith will have to look for. there is nothing that would prevent the states from charging the individuals. but i imagine one of the things that jack smith will examine is whether he can make that link. and that is important. you can do that with witness testimony. it may be a name that we've never heard. so that will be something that we'll be looking for in the indictment to see if it connects donald trump to the fake electors or even to connect donald trump to the violence that occurred at the capitol. >> hannah, you mentioned that the january 6 committee wasn't able to talk to everybody that jack smith's team has been able to call before the grand jury. pence being one of them. he was directly involved in the events of january 6. he talked to the special counsel grand jury. listen. >> president trump's words that day were reckless. i had no right to overturn the election. with regard to an indictment, i hope it doesn't come to that. i'm not convinced that the president acting on bad advice of a group of crank
and that is what jack smith will have to look for. there is nothing that would prevent the states from charging the individuals. but i imagine one of the things that jack smith will examine is whether he can make that link. and that is important. you can do that with witness testimony. it may be a name that we've never heard. so that will be something that we'll be looking for in the indictment to see if it connects donald trump to the fake electors or even to connect donald trump to the...
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these suggest details about the case jack smith is building. i'll go through a few key points and bring our leddoff legal expert, a veteran of the doj's criminal division and who knows jack smith's work. point one, the doj is building a case involving multiple people. now, that may sound logical. that may sound intuitive if you watch the january 6th hearings and saw all the people involved. but again, it's one thing to imagine it, another thing to have hard evidence of it, and this is hard evidence, because a key charge here the conspiracy to defraud the u.s., a federal crime where two or more persons conspire to commit a crime and act on their plan. trump worked with others on one or more of those plots we've shown thaw stretch out over time to steal the election. pretty straightforward. point two here tonight. this conspiracy charge might not relate to, say, the worst or most violent thing that happened in that period stretching from when trump lost through, well, january 2021. it might be the plot instead with some of the more damning eviden
these suggest details about the case jack smith is building. i'll go through a few key points and bring our leddoff legal expert, a veteran of the doj's criminal division and who knows jack smith's work. point one, the doj is building a case involving multiple people. now, that may sound logical. that may sound intuitive if you watch the january 6th hearings and saw all the people involved. but again, it's one thing to imagine it, another thing to have hard evidence of it, and this is hard...
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Jul 9, 2023
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mitt's jack smith's other investigation. trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. ving with hiv and i'm on cabenuva. it helps keep me undetectable. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva is two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's really nice not to have to rush home and take a daily hiv pill. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatme
mitt's jack smith's other investigation. trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. ving with hiv and i'm on cabenuva. it helps keep me undetectable. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva is two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's really nice not to have to rush home and take a daily hiv pill. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you...
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>> jack smith has been working very hard and very directed and focused since he took office. he became special counsel in november. he charged mar-a-lago case in june. that took him eight months. and here we are into july, and he is probably very likely getting ready to charge another case, but jack smith has made a huge difference when he took over. when merrick garland was running the investigation, no indication that the topmost people were interviewed or charged, and that changed very quickly when jack smith took over. one more timing mix. there is yet another investigation pending by the fulton county, georgia, district attorney relating to the pressure campaign there. >> and that is the review of august-ish. >> she has sent public letters to have the judges working from home and not holding trials wink-wink in august, and who is getting there first. if i am jack smith's shoes and i want to call it before fani willis, because i want first priority and hey, we charged first and we should try it first. the judge does not have to listen to it, but you want to get to the wit
>> jack smith has been working very hard and very directed and focused since he took office. he became special counsel in november. he charged mar-a-lago case in june. that took him eight months. and here we are into july, and he is probably very likely getting ready to charge another case, but jack smith has made a huge difference when he took over. when merrick garland was running the investigation, no indication that the topmost people were interviewed or charged, and that changed very...
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Jul 25, 2023
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here's what i suspect that means about where jack smith is headed. if in fact he's going to use that, this is a statute that we would often put in play when a bad actor was trying to prevent someone from voting or prevent their vote from being counted. there's a case in play right now, a case where the defendant has been districted at trial but not yet sentenced, and that's a case where the gentleman was involved in online providing misinformation, telling people that they could vote by text or vote by posting their preference online, which of course isn't true. and he's prosecuted under 241, and joy, what it reminds me of is these paper cases we used to see where people would go in to black neighborhoods and mail out these glossy postcards and say republicans vote on whatever the correct date of the election is, democrats, you vote the following tuesday. this is that same sort of kkk inspired conduct, keeping people from voting. if jack smith is crafting a case around the notion of either preventing people from voting or keeping their votes from bei
here's what i suspect that means about where jack smith is headed. if in fact he's going to use that, this is a statute that we would often put in play when a bad actor was trying to prevent someone from voting or prevent their vote from being counted. there's a case in play right now, a case where the defendant has been districted at trial but not yet sentenced, and that's a case where the gentleman was involved in online providing misinformation, telling people that they could vote by text or...
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jack smith has been through the issues here. it's very unlikely that trump's team can suggest something he has not considered. but it is good form in some ways a measure of due process to engage in these sorts of conversations. in many cases, this is the meeting that a plea comes from a defendant who is interested in pleading guilty. there is some room here. there could be some room in a case where a defendant who is engaging with the evidence and seeing what risks they were at to work out a plea agreement. it's awfully unlikely that will happen here. >> i've only got a smile on my face because normal stuff doesn't apply here. lisa, there will even be some invitation for donald trump to address the grand jury, and generally speaking his lawyers don't like him talking directly to people who make decisions. >> that's. right we understand that invitation, in fact, wasn't the target letter. the invitation was, if you want to speak to the grand jury, you have until thursday to do so. of course, his lawyers don't want him speaking to
jack smith has been through the issues here. it's very unlikely that trump's team can suggest something he has not considered. but it is good form in some ways a measure of due process to engage in these sorts of conversations. in many cases, this is the meeting that a plea comes from a defendant who is interested in pleading guilty. there is some room here. there could be some room in a case where a defendant who is engaging with the evidence and seeing what risks they were at to work out a...
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after special counsel, jack, smith bought the new charges this week. alleging the former president saw a cover-up to conceal classified documents at his mar-a-lago home. by the leading surveillance video. mar-a-lago property manager, carl still levy area, now charged with two obstruction counts. making false statements to the fbi. his lawyer had no comment. the indictment does not say whether the footage was deleted. >> i don't think they think -- these are my tapes that we gave to them. >> the former president is facing another possible indictment, in a separate investigation, to when they tried to overturn the 2020 election. we spoke with his top rival, florida governor, ron desantis, who still won't attack mr. trump over his legal troubles. >> does what he did on january 6th disqualify him from being president? >> here's what i think we can. do we can focus the election on joe biden's failures and our positive vision for the. future we're litigating things from four or five years ago, republicans are going to lose. >> mr. trump is still dominating m
after special counsel, jack, smith bought the new charges this week. alleging the former president saw a cover-up to conceal classified documents at his mar-a-lago home. by the leading surveillance video. mar-a-lago property manager, carl still levy area, now charged with two obstruction counts. making false statements to the fbi. his lawyer had no comment. the indictment does not say whether the footage was deleted. >> i don't think they think -- these are my tapes that we gave to them....
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so even with all of this on his plate, jack smith is still investigating. we could have even more indictments, potentially even superseding indictments against existing defendants still to come. how do all these cases line up with each other, and what exactly is the order of operations here? there's no better one to ask than the two gents i have tonight. of course the calender seems very full already. october of this year is the new york a.g.'s civil fraud case against trump. march of next year is alvin bragg's trial for the hush money probe. there's the unknown trial date for mar-a-lago, potentially trial that will be set in fani willis' investigation into trump's role in the 2020 election results in ther state, and of course the special counsel probe january 6th potential trump indictment. how is this all going to work, neal? >> yeah, so it's definitely a full calender, alish, as you said and it's because donald trump appears to have violated multiple different criminal laws in multiple different jerks. and our law doesn't generally deal with someone who'
so even with all of this on his plate, jack smith is still investigating. we could have even more indictments, potentially even superseding indictments against existing defendants still to come. how do all these cases line up with each other, and what exactly is the order of operations here? there's no better one to ask than the two gents i have tonight. of course the calender seems very full already. october of this year is the new york a.g.'s civil fraud case against trump. march of next year...
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Jul 23, 2023
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there is nothing to preclude jack smith from asking questions even after the is filed. the grand jury cannot be used to bolster the evidence once in indictment is filed. you can only continue to investigated for looking into new charges, or new defendants. >> barb, let's talk some nuts and bolts for our viewers. let's say that jack smith gets more evidence that it ruminates not only donald trump, but perhaps the coconspirator of possible codefendant. does that mean a superseding indictment is filed? meaning a brand-new indictment's fault of the new case number, or is there a brand-new case number that's generated in order to prosecute additional people of persons? >> yeah, it depends. there were rules. if they are part of a conspiracy with donald trump, you would expect that to come in the same indictment, and bs superseding indictments. we've added another chapter to it. or, it will be that the other person's conduct is completely separate. say for example someone lied in the jury, and how they found out about that. that could be charged as a separate case, unrelated t
there is nothing to preclude jack smith from asking questions even after the is filed. the grand jury cannot be used to bolster the evidence once in indictment is filed. you can only continue to investigated for looking into new charges, or new defendants. >> barb, let's talk some nuts and bolts for our viewers. let's say that jack smith gets more evidence that it ruminates not only donald trump, but perhaps the coconspirator of possible codefendant. does that mean a superseding...
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Jul 6, 2023
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but even before jack smith got there, the u.s. attorney's office in washington was looking at all of donald trump's lawyers, the people giving him counsel, trying to figure out whether or not they had any criminal exposure. so if jack smith, in the course of his investigation, has followed those threads and found that evidence, he's not restricted from bringing charges against other people. so there is a good reason for him to go back and go over territory that the u.s. attorney's office had begun to look at, and take out of this evidence. part of it is to see whether or not there could be people charged in this larger plot to overturn the election, and whether or not those people give him the really strong, very clear evidence he needs. basically somebody to be before jury and say this was the plot and my role in it, and it was directed by donald trump, can he get that level of evidence from this group of people, who has been coming in, in these later days of the evidence gathering. >> so tim, if he has access to mark meadows, if
but even before jack smith got there, the u.s. attorney's office in washington was looking at all of donald trump's lawyers, the people giving him counsel, trying to figure out whether or not they had any criminal exposure. so if jack smith, in the course of his investigation, has followed those threads and found that evidence, he's not restricted from bringing charges against other people. so there is a good reason for him to go back and go over territory that the u.s. attorney's office had...